with change looming large on the horizon what will those people do who make a wt/career of shunning should it become just a 'conscience issue'.
Zeb, are you making the suggestion that some easing up on the strictness is coming because some specific statements have been made--- or is it the from the defensive and ambiguous comments made by the GB in the Aussie Royal Commission?
Either way, to lessen the pressure on both the shunners and the shunned would not I think do the Borg any favours. The reason being that it would inevitably allow the light of apostate thinking to shine into their dark lives.
Let's hope it happens.
hi everybody, 1st post here.
20 years jw, elder for 6 years, regular pioneer for 3 years, have always been following the 2012 candace conti abuse case with much interest, especially since the case suddenly disappeared from www.watchtower.com's news section (thanks brother j. r. brown, office of public information, because it led me to "worldly" websites for more info), leading to more and more dissatisfaction , leading to jwfacts, jwsurvey, ad1914, wtdocuments etc., leading to my awakening about 4 months ago, now fading faster and faster to zero meetings and zero field service...and you know what?
it feels good!.
with some 30,000 different christian denominations, how would one know which one was for real?
some folks think jesus did start a church, others think no.
Jesus is a literary legend, his character having existed at least since the early dynastic Egyptian times. For the sake of Jewish and for that matter Dionysian interest, the name “Jesus” was slapped on the back of this already very old fictional player and proclaimed as a real person. Not only ”real” but the man who miraculously overcame death and lived a second time. A written word who became flesh! (think about it) And the Jewish hopefuls believed.
There is no concrete evidence to prove Jesus’ life as a historical person which would satisfy modern historians, i.e. first hand eyewitness accounts from credible witnesses which would support his existence. Remember too there were many, many renowned writers of the Greco- Roman world alive at the time, who had he really lived, would have loved to have been able to testify to this supernatural marvel of a man. Pausanias, Tacitus the older and younger and notably Lucius Annaeus Seneca (the younger) amongst a host of other writers, gave no details of a wonder working god-man in their midst. They would most certainly have done so had he existed.
There is however evidence that unscrupulous promoters of Christianity such as Eusebius, the fawning biographer of Constantine, would happily insert spurious comment into the handwritten texts to make out that he really existed. Magical god-men like Jesus are the subjects of folk stories not the accounts of real people. The fact that he is believed is the result of mass propaganda for the illiterate under Roman rule in the fourth century and for the purpose of political control over them.
It is one of the biggest confidence tricks of all time.
The very mention of Peter as the “Rock” (his name in Aramaic) and the words put in Jesus’ mouth about Peter; betrays Mithraic origins in the Christian Church. As the myth would have it, the god-man Mithras was born virginally in the rock where the Catholic Church still stands today in Vatican City. The last Mithraic pope (Papa) or pater patras meaning ‘father of fathers’ was Vettius Agricola Praetextatus and he died in 384 CE believing in harmony with the Catholic teachings and with the Catholic Church correspondingly accepting the beliefs of Mithras the great shepherd. Evidences of this are found in the borrowing of Mithraic doctrines such as the nativity story complete with oxen, shepherds and three magi, also the last supper ritual, dying on a cross at the spring equinox, end times prophecy, a celibate priesthood, sacred Sundays etc. This is how the Catholic Church was indeed built on Peter, the 'rock' of Mithras.
It was always a case that the grandeur of power would bamboozle the poor and illiterate. The leaders did not ”believe” but the illiterate and downtrodden would believe anything they are told...just like fundamentalist Christians and JWs today.
Jesus is a fictional character, he therefore could not start a church.
Wakey wakey Jehovah’s Witnesses!
i have been lurking on this site for 3 years and this is my fist post.
i would like to thank everyone for helping me wake up.
i was baptized at 24, married at 25, ms for 18 years mentally in for 24 years but started to wake up 3 years ago doing research to give public talks, and the actions of arrogant and narcissistic brothers and sisters did not help.
Welcome Simple Minds, thanks for posting your experience, so glad you have listened to your inner voice and realised the enormous scam promoted by the WTBTS. Yes they claim to be the only 'really' happy people...that is absurd.
The words in Matthew attributed to Jesus saying "You must be perfect like your heavenly father" must be the worst possible psychological advice ever given. Anyone attempting it is bound to fail or end up in a mental hospital. No wonder so many JWs are on tranquillizers.
I reckon your request for time and space to recover your equilibrium is one that nobody can deny you and you can use the time to relax a bit, read and find your feet again. The trouble is as most of us have found, that as a JW we are not prepared for real life, only for life under the delusional Watchtower hope...so it does take time to readjust, but we get there in the end.
Anyway, well done for escaping and looking forward to hearing more of your story... and never fear the elders.
for those of you that don't research this stuff i will give a little back story.
we all know about the moses exodus, but history and archeology didn't seem to confirm this event.
the only exodus out of egypt ever recorded was that of a group of asiatic tribes that had taken over egypt for a bit over 100 years called the hyksos and the followers of the pharaoh akhenaten who perpetuated a monotheistic idea of worshiping only one deity the aten.
Just a thought; how could reed and red be confused in the original languages... surely it is only in English that there is a similarity?
Second thought; the Egyptian "monotheism" of Akenaten was probably similar to Jewish henotheism which recognised other Gods but worshipped only one. Monotheism (belief and worship of an only god) arrived, or rather evolved,very much later... the Jews being henotheistic almost up to the first century. Anyone have evidence for a date on this?
please be aware of everything that is happening around the world at this moment in time.
this goes to anyone, ex-communicated, removed, serving, believer and non.
at this point in my observations i have realized many religions/ideologies know there is some sort "end of time" or a transition into a new order of living in this earth.
the study wt of march 2016 is up on jw.org and is the standard article around this time of year...pressuring young kids to dedicate their lives to the organization again.
this wt will be studied during may, so just in time to pressure them into baptism at the regional conventions this summer.such articles really upset me, as the realization of how many young promising lives will be destroyed.
how many families will be broken up, when the child who got baptized as a minor (ages 6 and up are mentioned in the literature) decides as a young adult that his/her conscience no longer allows him/her to be part of such a destructive cult.
Baptism vows... interpreted for the practical meaning behind them.
Note to the all congregations; will the elders please make sure that baptism candidates are as young as possible, ideally before they have the slightest idea of the consequences of what they are committing themselves to.
The vows:
Do you give up your connections to the world outside of the congregation and henceforth put all your effort and money and time to be spent in furthering the property portfolio of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society?
Under penalty of death do you promise to be a servile worm and do everything you are instructed according to the edicts of the governing body of the JW organisation ahead of any personal or mere family interests?
Do you vow not to get an education which might expose the flaws in the Watchtower teachings and hereafter live in blind faith of the absolute truth of their current beliefs until they are changed for new beliefs which you will then defend with your life?
Do you vow forever to instantly cut off all ties with family members or friends who dare have religious thought at odds with the JW org.?
Can you say that the JW org. governing body is the exclusive channel which God is using today to build his property empire on Earth?
If your answer to these questions is in the affirmative... then gawd help you!
i've been invited to attend this conference (limited attendance) and consider it an exciting privilege.
maybe for many it would be too boring, as a poster said on one of my threads, (my paraphrase) " who cares about the past?".
but, if i started my adult life as a brainwashed slave to yhwh/jesus (and, don't give me any shit about jw's ignoring jesus), i am finishing it as a (somewhat-grin) enlightened man who just may have some understanding of the development of world thought.
FTS, enjoy your conference. Hearing the serious thinkers in the field of late classical knowledge is a joy. I heard a lecture last week from the academic Karen Armstrong, (she is extremely well informed and assiduous in presenting an accurate picture but still, I believe, leans towards a deist interpretation). I agree heartily on the matter of JW mistrust of proper disinterested scholars, they are the ones at the coal-face of reality not "Bible scholars" who have only one object in mind. To understand the true birth of christianity demands a knowledge of contemporary life and thought which involves knowledge of the many sects and pagan beliefs. Manicheanism was an important ingredient as was the big cover-up you mentioned once Roman Christianity had gained ascendancy. Have you early textual references for this (cover up)?
I will read up on Sam Lieu's work.
just one little thought....adam & eve ate the fruit from the tree "of the knowledge of good & evil".
so..in other words, before they ate they did not know right from wrong...hmmmm so how can you blame someone who does not know right from wrong?.
for a crime to take place in human law you must have the act - 'actus reus' - and the guilty mind or 'mens rea' as it is termed.
i'm non-jw.. been following this forum.
most of you folks have been through hell, but are still loving souls.
i'm reeeally impressed and glad to be here.. my question is at the end of this.
Just don't get your hopes up until she realises what a sham and toxic religion she is in. Otherwise...
the disaster is not immediately apparent, it will come with children and she wants to return to the cult and you don't want to go there. It's hell on earth friend.
